The Gospel According to Paul Washer Pt1 – The Gospel’s Power and Message

Paul Washer is a popular name among those who support a Reformed gospel.  Many have read his books or heard his preaching. The thing is, is Paul Washer giving us the true gospel message?  This four part series of posts will attempt to examine Paul Washer’s book The Gospel’s Power and Message to see exactly what Paul is saying and consider if it is the Biblical gospel.

Washer

My comments are in ( ) and Paul’s are in quotes. Early on we are greeted with this:

“Until God regenerates a man’s heart, that man will address the gospel in the same way the demons of the Gadarenes addressed the Lord Jesus Christ: “What have we to do with You?”15 The carnal man can have no true interest or appreciation in the gospel apart from the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, and yet this miracle takes place in the heart of a man through the gospel preaching which he at first disdains.” Washer, Paul (2012-10-12). The Gospel’s Power and Message (pp. 7-8).  . Kindle Edition.

(The implication here is that regeneration needs to take place before faith but this is a grave Reformed error. Remember though in going through this that this is part of the lens through which Paul Washer views the gospel.)

“The preaching of Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield, Charles Spurgeon, and other like-minded preachers would be ridiculed, lampooned, and laughed to scorn by modern man.” (p. 8).

(Please note here who Paul is looking up to and identifying with.  The three mentioned here were compromised on the gospel as well.)

“Since there is no affinity or friendship between the gospel and the world, to receive the gospel is to reject the world. This demonstrates just how radical the act of receiving the gospel can be. To receive and follow the gospel call is to reject all that can be seen with the eye and held in the hand in exchange for what cannot be seen.1 It is to reject personal autonomy and the right to self-government in order to enslave oneself to a Messiah who died two thousand years ago as an enemy of the state and a blasphemer.” (p. 9).

(To accept the gospel is not to reject the world. It is to reject any other method of salvation than by faith in Christ alone. It also is not the rejecting of self government.)

“Secondly, a man who receives the gospel trusts exclusively in the person and work of Jesus Christ as the only way of right standing before God.” (p. 10).

(Isn’t this the first and last point?)

“A genuine receiving of the gospel not only involves a disdain for and turning from sin but also a disdain for and turning from any confidence other than Christ, especially a confidence in self. It is for this reason that a person who is truly converted will become almost nauseous at even the slightest suggestion that his right standing before God might be the product of his own virtue or merit. Although his new life in Christ produces good works, he has cast off all hope in good works as a means of salvation and trusts exclusively in the person and perfect work of Christ.” (p. 10).

(Wait, what about the point above? I sense a contradiction. Repentance during conversion does not have to do with disdain or turning from sin. The part about turning from any confidence other than Christ has merit but the works have already been added in. Faith plus works equals works.  The new life in Christ does not produce the good works itself. Also, casting off all hope in goods works as means of salvation would have meant that they quit trusting the idea that turning from sin merits salvation. Remember, Washer does not see turning from sin as works because he believes in regeneration before faith.)

“God does not call men to make Jesus Lord (as though they had such power), but to live in absolute submission to the Lord He has made. Therefore, the man who desires to receive the benefits of the gospel must first decide if he is willing to turn over all autonomy and self-government to the Lord of the gospel.” (p. 11).

(God has called all men to believe the gospel. He desires that all men repent (change their mind) and trust Christ alone to save.  Submission comes after were are saved and is not automatic. It is a continual part of the process of progressive sanctification. No believer reaches the point where they are submitted perfectly always. This is because the sin nature is still present with us until we receive our glorified bodies in heaven.

Here also is a big error. Washer’s conclusion is that the person desiring salvation must not just believe but decide if he is willing to turn over all autonomy and self government.  This is really what Lordship salvationists mean by make Jesus the Lord of your life. They don’t mean make Him God but they mean to put yourself in submission to Him as God / Lord. However, this is not the gospel.  It is an addition to the Biblical gospel and is indeed another gospel. This takes it even one step further than the error of turn from sin for salvation.)

“The true convert does not receive the gospel as an addition to his previous life, but in exchange for it. To receive one is to lose the other. This is the clear teaching of Jesus: “For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.” (p. 12).

(Obtaining salvation is NOT an exchange.  It is not this for that. It is not a barter deal or a bilateral contract.  Talk about error. That verse is relating to discipleship not conversion or the decision to trust Christ. Look at the preceding verse in context.

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.)

“The man, woman, youth, or child who has truly received the gospel will stand upon it, and in their standing they prove that they have truly received it.” (p. 15).

(Even if this were true, what have you proven if you stubbornly stand upon a false gospel? I say that Christ alone is the proof of someone’s conversion. Have they trusted Him alone for salvation or not? It is that simple. If so, we have the promise of God’s Word that they are saved. Unless, that is, that we don’t believe God’s Word when it promises that! Jn 3:16 – more verses are listed below.)

“…we would do well to cry out to the masses, “Jesus Christ promises you two things: an eternal salvation in which to hope and a cross on which to die.16”(p. 20).

(No, this is error because it is mixing the grace offer of salvation with discipleship.)

“The doctrine of the perseverance of the saints is one of the most precious truths to the believer who understands it.” (p. 20).

(No it isn’t. The believer that understands it exposes it for the error that it is. Remember, Calvinitsic Perseverance of the Saints is not Biblical eternal security.  It just means that God’s pre-chosen ones are enabled to live the Christian life and are prevented from falling away from the faith. It centers on works and there is no assurance in this system because any bad works might be a sign that one really is not truly one of the elect. It takes what should be security and turns it into insecurity.)

“In the text at the beginning of the chapter, the apostle Paul writes, “You are saved, if you hold fast that word.” The word if introduces a conditional clause that we must not ignore and we cannot remove. The logic is clear: a person is saved if he holds fast the gospel, but if he does not hold fast, he is not saved. This is not a denial of the doctrine of perseverance but rather an explanation of it. None of those who truly believe unto salvation will ever be lost to eternal destruction. The grace and power of the God who saved them will also keep them until that final day. However, the evidence that they have truly believed is that they continue in the things of God and do not turn away from Him. Although they will still struggle against the flesh and be subject to many failings, the full course of their life will reveal a definite and notable progress in both faith and godliness. Their perseverance does not save them or make them objects of grace, but it reveals that they are objects of grace who are truly saved by faith. To put it plainly, the proof or validation of genuine conversion is that the one who professes faith in Christ perseveres in that faith and grows in sanctification throughout the full course of his life. If a person professes faith in Christ and yet falls away or makes no progress in godliness, it does not mean that he has lost his salvation. It reveals that he was never truly converted. (p. 21).

(Paul Washer just described what I said. This is the explanation of perseverance of the saints and it is flat out error and amounts to Lordship legalism as a method of sanctification. It leads to law bondage and fear. People that have been rescued from this madness can testify of this experience.)

“They help us to discern the difference between true and false conversion, and they function as a warning for the believer to apply all diligence in making his calling and election sure. (p. 22).

(There is no such thing as a false conversion. Making your calling and election sure is part of sanctification.)

“There are many who believe they are saved and thoroughly Christian because they once prayed a prayer and asked Jesus to come into their hearts. However, they did not continue on in the faith. They never came out of the world, or if they did, they quickly returned. They possess no practical reality of the fear of the Lord. There is no fragrance of divine grace in their lives. They show no outward evidence of inward transformation. There is not even a hint of the divine discipline that God provides to all His children.25 Yet they stand assured of their salvation because of one decision in their past and their belief that their prayer was truly sincere. No matter how popular such a belief may be, it has no biblical grounds.”(p. 22).

(Let’s make no mistake here. Prayer itself does not save. That is not the issue. Faith alone in Christ alone saves. So a past decision to trust Christ alone for salvation does have Biblical grounds because it is THE only way to receive the gift of salvation that has already been purchased by Christ. Simply trust him for it.)

“However, biblical assurance that a person has passed from death to life finds a basis not merely upon an examination of the moment of conversion but also upon an examination of his or her life from that moment on.” (p. 22).

(This is false. I can see why a Reformed person coming at this from that perspective would say this but it doesn’t hold up to the Word. Consider some of these verses:

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Notice it does not say works are required. The promise of eternal life is for all who will believe, not all who will believe and show enough evidence by way of good works.

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

(This is a good question for Lordship salvationists.)

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

(After we believed we were sealed.  It does not say after we showed enough good works we were sealed.)

1Jn 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

(Notice specifically verse 10. We that believe have the witness because we have believed the record that God has given us of His Son.  There is no amount of works that have to be quantified or qualified. It is not about works! Thankfully salvation is about Christ and His righteousness applied on our behalf. All those who come to understand their need (that they are sinners before a Holy God) and trust Christ the Son of God based on His provision (death, burial, resurrection) are saved from eternal damnation and stand assured of eternal life. Praise God that no works enter this equation or else the would be no one good enough to be saved. I’ll close with verse 14.)

1Jn 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

(My prayer is that Paul Washer himself will come to understand the error that he is making and that he would trust Christ alone for salvation. I pray that those currently under this style of error are freed from it and embrace the gospel of grace and that those that are discerning would be bold in their defense of the one true gospel and true method of obtaining the free gift of eternal life. Eph 2:8-9)

God Bless,

Jim F

This entry was posted in Calvinism, Lordship Salvation and tagged , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

20 Responses to The Gospel According to Paul Washer Pt1 – The Gospel’s Power and Message

  1. hollysgarcia says:

    Reblogged this on Redeemingmoments and commented:
    Another blog on the serious error of Lordship – Holiness – Calvinist teacher Paul Washer.

  2. Mark says:

    Paul Washer is a full blown Roman Catholic masquerading in Protestant garb!

  3. His says:

    “For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.” “although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.” “For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?” You are doing a terrible thing to the Gospel. Holly. You have born false witness against God’s chosen. You have aligned yourself with false teachers and have made man out to be good enough, smart enough, to fabricate, in and of himself, faith to believe in Christ apart from the power of the Holy Spirit. If His word says that faith is of Him, comes from Him, is a gift from Him, who are you to argue and teach otherwise? Who blinded you? You want to take credit for something you have no control over… Salvation. Salvation is of the Lord and of no other. The problem here is that you have no idea how truly sinful and depraved man is. You think there is some good in us despite Christ’s words that There is none who are good; Only God is good and no man alive is good enough. We aren’t born with faith, with born with sin… (The last few lines were edited by admin for content)

  4. sam says:

    only heard of this guy on expreacherman and your blog but I see he has great reviews on amazon for this book.All I can say is what a shame so many dont see the difference between grace and works for salvation.Thanks for pointing out these teachers and their books.Ill be looking forward to pt 2

  5. jimfloyd12 says:

    Right Sam,

    It is amazing how many miss the concept of grace and opt for a works focus to try to prove their salvation. Washer often asks people how do they know they are saved. My answer would be that I know that I am saved because my God promises it based on Christ. Jn 3:16. The promise is as good as the one making the promise. God is infallible and cannot lie. I fully trust Christ for salvation based on His sinless life, shed blood, death on the cross, and resurrection from the dead. There simply is nothing else to base it on than that. My good works don’t prove that I am saved any more than my sin proves that I am not. The bottom line is that Christ proves my salvation. Praise the Lord for that.

    For all those opting for the works style fruit inspection method of assurance, I challenge you to take a closer look at the Savior. Do you trust Him or not? If you do, why second guess Him by trying to get assurance from works!? You can get assurance from the very person you get salvation from in the first place.

  6. jimfloyd12 says:

    His,

    I don’t mind that you stopped by. It appears that maybe you meant this for Holly’s blog and not mine but I will answer since it is here.

    Please know that I have prayed for you and will try to answer some of this the best I can. No one is trying to make life difficult but what we want is to look to the scriptures to see if things are so.

    You said,

    “For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.”

    My comment:
    Rom 12:3 is a great verse and I agree that should be our mindset. I praise God each day for the blessing that is mine in Christ and take it as no small matter when dealing with doctrinal differences especially where the gospel is concerned.

    “…have made man out to be good enough, smart enough, to fabricate, in and of himself, faith to believe in Christ apart from the power of the Holy Spirit.”

    My comment:
    Even Paul Washer himself admits in this book that man has the ability to choose. He just says that though he has the ability that he WILL not choose to believe. I say that he may. We have record in the Word of God of many that 1) heard the gospel and 2) believed it. Now Washer argues that the person is regenerated upon the hearing of the Word and feels a deep sense of disdain for sin and a desire for a Savior. I say that the Holy Spirit does indeed convince the world or sin, righteousness, and judgment along with testifying to the truth of the gospel but man still has to choose to believe. Faith is not forced upon someone. Think about it. Why would God ask someone to do something if He knows they cannot possibly do it. That is not the God of the Bible. God desires that every man comes to repentance (changes their mind) and trusts Christ alone for salvation. The call to believe the gospel is a genuine one because it is available to all and can be believed by all. God does not tempt men with something they cannot possibly have.

    “If His word says that faith is of Him, comes from Him, is a gift from Him, who are you to argue and teach otherwise? Who blinded you? You want to take credit for something you have no control over…”

    The Word does not say that faith is the gift of God FOR salvation. Let’s not mistake the spiritual gift of faith in the life of the believer for faith at conversion. Many will try to use Eph 2:8-9 to say faith is included as the gift but it really is stating that salvation itself is the gift which is received by grace (unmerited favor) through faith (unmeritorious response). You appear to be saying that men are puppets subject to God bestowing or not bestowing salvation upon them and they have no choice in the matter but this is not the Biblical example or pattern.

    Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
    Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
    Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
    Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    Faith comes by hearing which comes by the Word of God – not by God forcing it (faith) upon us.

    “Salvation is of the Lord and of no other.”

    Sure is.

    “The problem here is that you have no idea how truly sinful and depraved man is.”

    Man is sinful and not able to save himself. This however is not the same as saying he won’t believe the gospel unless God makes Him.

    “You think there is some good in us despite Christ’s words that There is none who are good;”

    No one is saying that there is good in us. Even good works in sinful lost men are as filthy rages to God.

    “We aren’t born with faith, with born with sin…”

    We are not born believers but we are born with the ability to place our faith in something or someone. Yes we are born in sin as well. The thing is that even depraved sinners can hear the Word, be convicted of the Holy Spirit, and receive salvation by grace through faith. After all, it is not of ourselves. It is offered as a gift by God. This not by works lest anyone should boast. ….But yet Lordship proponents like Paul Washer are going to go around pointing to their works to prove that they are legit? Hmmmm.

    Jim F

    Btw, if you want to unsubscribe to a WordPress blog you should be able to click on the Unfollow button. I totally understand why you may not wish to follow a blog that points out Washer as being in error if you agree with him. Thankfully it is what the Word says that matters. IT makes the ultimate determination as to what is right or not.

  7. Debbie says:

    His, (Edited by admin) Holly has not blasphemed the Holy Spirit. People have to either choose to accept Jesus or reject him, just as the Jews had that choice. Why bother even talking about Jesus to people if they have no choice whether to Believe what Jesus did was for them or to reject Him. It is Paul Washer and people who follow him, who have distorted and maligned The Perfect and Pure Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Why was the Gospel message of Jesus Christ made so simple? Why would God go to the trouble of making it as simple as He could? So that all could come to Him and have eternal life as He stated in John 3:16? Does He know who will and who won’t of course He does. But He forces no one to BELIEVE that Jesus Christ was capable of paying for ALL of our sins and paying that heavy price that He paid for us SO that we would forever be with Him. But he does not CHOOSE any to death.

    How easy would it be for you, who loves horses, to decide which ones where to die a horrible torturous death? Could you? Or choose between your children which would have a wonderful life and who would not get to enjoy a wonderful life? Do not the children make that choice how to live their life? Of course they do. We all have a choice. He says so. Again, John 3:16. God desires ALL to come to Him. We have a choice. I am not trying to harm you or hurt you in anyway.

    I have watched you and some others as well continue to slide/push yourselves toward the TULIP and/or Lordship theologies. It seems that the more any of you dig and scratch to achieve the same level of knowledge of this theology of men/women the farther into the darkness you go and the farther away you get from the truth of God’s word. Your speech does not show love. Why are so many who follow after the words of men rather than the written word of God have such anger?

    I really am not trying to be unkind to you, (name edited by admin). I truly care for you! I have since I have known you.

    Have you grown IN Christ? Or has your thirst for the words of men and women and to gain the same knowledge and wisdom that they seem to have…over taken you dear one?

    Please take time to consider… where you are at now. Are you able to sit with just Him and His Word and to thirst for Him and His Word above all else or above people?

    Isn’t it is the words of men and woman that we have to be looking at and to see if they line up with scripture and not to be forcing the words of men/women and their theologies to line up with scripture?

    When you remove the Clear Simple Gospel Message of Jesus Christ and add these teachings of men.. you have lost the sole purpose of His Word and the reason that Jesus came to this earth because He loves us ALL enough that he wanted ALL to come to Him.

    How important is His Word to be to us? Above everything else.

    Deut. 8:3
    And HE humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that HE might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

    Proverbs 30:5
    Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

    Mat 4:4
    But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

    Those who are His should be following the same instructions as the Apostles were given in Matthew and in Acts. How are Washer and others pointing people TO Jesus? This is what we are to be about doing and not condemning folks. Two kinds of people, the saved and lost. If they profess to be Christians but are not behaving as they SHOULD, give them His Word. Feed His Sheep if we love them. If they say they do not know Jesus what are we to do.. share the Simple Pure Gospel of Jesus Christ with them.

    For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
    Romans 1:16

    The Apostles did go to the Jews first in the book of Acts. The first 12 chapters are about that. The last chapters 13 through 28 are about Paul taking the message of the Gospel to the Gentiles and where he found Jews he shared The Gospel of Jesus with them. We see people getting saved all throughout the book of Acts. The Apostles were God’s messengers who had been given the Authority from Jesus Himself and Taught by Jesus Himself.

    Why do we use Scripture? It is the power of God unto Salvation. Not our words but His Words.
    Their Faith is built up by hearing the Word of God not our lengthy ramblings and words that I have seen some use that people can not understand. We are all part of the Ministry of Christ once we believe and the Holy Spirit comes to dwell within us. Does His Word say that we are to seek men’s knowledge over the understanding that the Holy Spirit gives to us? No. But, we are all called to spread the Good News not just the preachers. It is our responsibility to do what Jesus commanded us to do. We also choose that part, too. But then that part after salvation becomes discipleship.

    13. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    14. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

    15. And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

    16. But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

    17. So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
    Romans 10:13-17

    The Gospel of Jesus Christ:
    1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

    2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

    3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

    4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures,
    1 Corinthians 15:1-4

    1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

    2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

    3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?

    5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    John 3:1-8

    You have many that are praying for you because we love and care about you.

  8. jimfloyd12 says:

    Thanks Debbie for your input and please stop by again.

    As a note for everyone, I reserve the discretion to edit out parts of comments. What I don’t want is labeling one another as liars etc. If you feel someone is in error, it is fine to say so but just go to the scriptures to explain how so. I am content for this to be a productive discussion on key Bible concepts and the only way to do that is leave the personal stuff out.

    Jim F

  9. Debbie says:

    Jim did you think I called Michelle a liar? It was late, and so if you have the original that I posted, please send it to me what you felt was objectionable that you edited out. I try very hard to watch my words. Thank you. Jim

  10. hollysgarcia says:

    Dear “His”. I have always thought your horse was beautiful.

    “M”, I do realize who you are, I can assume, that by you using your horse as your picture you wanted me to know it was you. It wasn’t really hidden as you use your horse’s picture (which I understand) over on FB.

    So with letting you know that, I want to tell you, I love you and still pray for you often and others who are deceived by this false gospel.

    Remember our conversations about your lack of assurance? Why do you not KNOW if you have eternal life? The Bible tells us we can know. Does it occur to you at all that you are angry quite a lot? The last five posts you left on my page (before I could answer) were quite angry. That tells me that somehow you are having conflict with these beliefs you are being taught.

    Yes, we receive the free gift. We believe, and we receive this free gift of eternal life from Him. How? Our responsibility is to believe (Jn 6:28-29, Acts 16:30-31 as well as many others)

    You say I am doing a “terrible thing to the gospel”. And you said I have “born false witness against God’s chosen”

    Dear friend (yes, I still consider you a friend), are you not afraid that you are not “one of the chosen”? How will you ever know? John Piper says it takes a village to stay saved…

    As John said above, none of us think we are good, we recognize our filthy rags of self-righteousness…

    Part 2 to come dear one….

  11. hollysgarcia says:

    Debbie – I do not think Jim was talking about editing anything out from you, but just mentioned in your post earlier editing I am guessing.

    Jim said on the post by “His” above: , “(The last few lines were edited by admin for content).”

  12. hollysgarcia says:

    Sorry “His” for the delay, but if you have at all seen anything on FB through our mutual friends, you may know my dad has been gravely ill for over 4 months, and I myself am getting over pneumonia, so the day by day is a little bit difficult in time to respond.

    Here is Part 2.

    We don’t ‘fabricate faith in of ourselves’, it’s not about ‘mustering it up’, God is so gracious to give us many vehicles to come to faith and tells us in His Word HOW we are able come to faith.
    The heavens declare God’s Glory, the firmament His handiwork. Eac day and night, they reveal knowledge to ALL the earth. The end of the WORLD. The righteousness of God has been revealed from the beginning. It is man who holds the truth in unrighteousness. God showed ALL these men the truth. From the heavens, to the invisible things of Him are clearly seen since the creation of the world. Understood by all the things that are made. That is why they are without excuse, man knows God, but they do not glorify Him as God, and are not thankful. They have vain imaginations, and their foolish hearts are darkened. (Not made dark by God, but but these things). They profess themselves to be wise, but became fools. (Ps 19:1-6; Rom 1:17-22)
    Let’s look at the work of God to draw unbelievers:

    1) The Holy Spirit convicts the unbeliever (the world) of the sin of unbelief, and of righteousness, and of judgment. (Jn 16:7-11)
    a. Can you tell me how that makes sense if they cannot believe?
    b. If Faith is the gift in Eph 2:8-9, then why does Jesus commend some people in the Word for having great faith, and chastise others for having little faith? Wouldn’t that be God chastising Himself for the amount of faith or the lack of faith He had given someone?

    2) The Law – Is the tutor to bring us to Christ (Gal 3:24, gives us knowledge of sin. Helps us understand His grace as we were delivered from the penalty of the law. Set free, married to another, the righteous requirement fulfilled by Christ alone. (Rom 6:23, Rom 7-8, Gal 2:19-21, Gal 3:2,5, 13)

    3) He drew ALL people to Himself when He was lifted up on the cross. (Jn 12:32; Jn 3:14-16) – Which is why we should be determined to preach Christ and HIM crucified and not with wisdom of men’s words (1 Cor 2:1-5)

    4) He sends people to preach the gospel to the WORLD. Rom 10:14-15. The one that was foretold in the Scriptures. (Is 53; 1 Cor 15:1-11)

    5) The gospel is the POWER of God unto salvation for EVERYONE who believes (Rom 1:16)

    6) The righteousness of God is revealed in the preaching of the gospel (Rom 1:17)

    7) So how do we believe?
    a. Faith comes by hearing the Word (Rom 10:17: Ps 19:7b; 1 Jn 5:9-13; John 20:31).
    b. By knowing the Holy Scriptures. (2 Tim 3:15)
    c. By the preaching of the Gospel (Rom 1:16-17, 1 Cor 1:17-18

    8) Why do some believe and others not?
    a. People preach with wisdom of men’s words instead of the simple gospel and make the cross of ‘none effect’ (1 Cor 1:17)
    b. Like Satan, these crafty men, corrupt minds from the simplicity that is in Christ (1 Cor 11:3)
    c. They preach another Jesus, or a different spirit or a different gospel (2 Cor 11:4)
    d. They have added works to justification and are accursed (Gal 1:6-9)

    So check again with these Scriptures, see if I have indeed born false witness or done a terrible thing to His gospel.

    But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. 2 Cor 11:12-15

  13. hollysgarcia says:

    Lastly “His” dear friend. Could you enumerate here ‘what’ the exact gospel is, and is it available for all? And since you are relying on the wisdom of certain friends, certain preachers, certain teachings, do you line up what they tell you with His Word? If not dear friend, do you know you will cost others their lives? And if you have not believed the simple gospel, your life too will be forfeited?

    That is why I speak. In Christ’s love to you… Please keep searching His Word to see if these things are really so.

  14. jimfloyd12 says:

    Thanks Debbie, I really didn’t direct that at you or anyone specifically. What I edited wasn’t too bad or anything. I just want to keep it more to the issues of the text or Biblical concepts concerning Washer’s views. I think we all understand the implication that if I believe one thing and another believes the opposite then we could each potentially think the other is in error or even a liar. The proof though is in the Word. I wanted to add your comment but also want to be careful to keep this from becoming about people personally versus the issues Washer brings up. And I know where you are coming from and am glad you are willing to contribute to this discussion.

    Thanks,

    Jim F

  15. jimfloyd12 says:

    Thanks Holly,

    I want to bring out point 2. That is excellent. We must remember that a natural man is indeed a sinner and needs to be shown his lost condition. The law is capable of showing a person that they are lost and deserving of God’s eternal righteous judgment. So in that it points us to the solution which is Christ. Contrary to Washer’s position that man will never want to believe, I believe it is Biblical to understand that a man may indeed want to believe and be delivered from eternal damnation once they see their need for it. Remember that God reaches out to the lost through the Holy Spirit and the Word. It is not that man naturally seeks God but that he can respond once God’s truth reaches him. This is why it is so important to preach the gospel to all nations.

    Jim F

  16. hollysgarcia says:

    Thank you Jim, I did not see your post in between mine. I really want to reach “His” as I have seen her go from searching and want to know about assurance, to harsher and angrier as she delved further and further into teachings of Paul Washer, Spurgeon, MacArthur, etc. In a way I wish you had shown the entire post, so many are dealing with the harsh accusations of Lordship people, maybe their words bearing witness against them is sometimes a good way for them to see.

    One friend who has come out of much of this, did read back on one of her emails, and was surprised at some of the name-calling and harsh words she used towards me. She was convicted by her own words. I will continue with His help, to love them, and pray for them, and speak the truth in love. Praying for them to become thirsty for His Word and dry with the teachings of men.

    What truth can they teach to reach the nations? Pray you are one of the elect? Pray for faith? Nothing else since they do not believe that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to ALL who WILL believe. Not all who are made to believe.

  17. His says:

    I will find a way to reply to you Holly in private. I do not feel comfortable here. I thought that this was your blog. My apologies for intruding here. This wasn’t the place.

  18. hollysgarcia says:

    His – Since you felt I was in error, lying, and not telling the truth about the gospel, that absolutely should be done in public. Obviously, my blog also would have read in public by the people who come to read. So no difference. Jim wrote this post, and I agree with it, but somehow you felt it was in error. So if you are sure, I am happy to have you email me, but you should prove your accusations of error in public before witnesses, this is the Biblical way.

    Because of this particular post you said a few things I’d like you to answer in public vs. a hit and run if Jim will allow it.

    1. You are doing a terrible thing to the Gospel. Holly.

    2. You have born false witness against God’s chosen.

    3. You have aligned yourself with false teachers….

    4. and have made man out to be good enough, smart enough, to fabricate, in and of himself, faith to believe in Christ apart from the power of the Holy Spirit.

    5. If His word says that faith is of Him, comes from Him, is a gift from Him,

    I’d like you to answer those things with Scripture if you are willing.

    1. What is the gospel with Scripture? And what in this article does a terrible thing to it?

    2. How do you know someone is “God’s Chosen”, don’t they have to persevere until the end to prove that they are?

    3. Which false teachers have I aligned myself with? Would you please name them in public, along with the teaching that is false (with Scripture please), as per Rom 16:17

    4. How have I made man ‘good enough, smart enough, to fabricate faith in themselves apart from the Holy Spirit?

    5. What verse says faith is the gift?

  19. jimfloyd12 says:

    This discussion may take place here just be kind and try to stay to the topic.

    Thanks

    Jim F

  20. Pingback: Kyle Idleman, Not a Fan, and Common Problems with Lordship Salvation Part 1 | Stand For the Faith

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s