Kyle Idleman, Not a Fan, and Common Problems with Lordship Salvation Pt 2

Posted on August 17, 2013 by jimfloyd12

Continuing where I left off last time, here is part two of my reaction to Kyle Idleman’s book. Idleman, Kyle (2011-06-07). Not a Fan: Becoming a Completely Committed Follower of Jesus Zondervan. Kindle Edition.

Kyle is the pastor of Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky.

Quotes from Not a Fan continued:

“That’s a lot different than the invitation to which many of us responded. At the end of the sermon the preacher said something like, “I want everybody to bow their heads and close their eyes. If you want to become a Christian then just raise your hand … I see that hand … I see that hand …” But Jesus makes it clear that you need to count the cost. (p. 66)

My Comments in blue:
(False, Jesus does want you to count the cost of discipleship, but that cost-counting comes after conversion and has no bearing on your actual salvation.  It has a bearing on things like the speed and quality of your Christian growth in sanctification or rewards in heaven, etc.)

“That’s a picture of what happens to a lot of fans. If you asked them, “Are you a fan or a follower?” they would confidently respond “follower.” It’s not a question of their effort or desire. They are following hard. Here is the problem; it’s not Jesus they are following. Without realizing it, they are aiming at the wrong target. Instead of following Jesus they are following religious rules and rituals. They have confused the targets. (p. 69)

(Sadly, this is also what Lordship salvation can do. It can get people to miss the key point of faith and skip on to “attempts to follow,” good works, and rule-keeping. Sometimes people even attempt to prove they are one of the “elect”.)

“Maybe when you were born your parents handed you a mask, and you grew up acting like Christians act, talking how Christians talked, listening to the music Christians listened to; but you never fell in love with Jesus. Your faith has always been more about honoring your heritage than surrendering your heart.” (p. 71)

(The thing here is that yes, many were handed a mask or a mold to conform to, but what they missed out on was the person to believe in – that being Christ. They never came to a point of faith. Everything was performance-based and appearance-driven.)

“As children we may play pretend— but the problem Jesus had with these religious leaders is that they were professional pretenders.” (p. 75)

(The pretenders were the Pharisees and Sadducees. The problem is that popular Reformed theologians or “culturally relevant” lordship Salvationists can easily be just like the Pharisees in that they make everything about rule-keeping and commitments. This is especially true when they skip over the part of believing in Christ alone for salvation to run straight to a faith plus model.)

Speaking of Pharisees:

“They made it hard for people to come to God. They taught that God’s favor and salvation was something that had to be earned, not just by keeping God’s law, but also by keeping a bunch of other laws they added to it.” (p. 76)

(So do Lordship Salvationists.  Let’s recount what other things LS advocates like Idleman add to the single requirement of faith: counting the cost, commitment, dying to self, repenting of sins, forsaking all, and on and on. Really? Who is more like the Pharisees?)

“Fans are all about the “do,” but followers celebrate the “done.” (p. 80)

(False, Pharisees are all about the do. Praise God, free grace believers understand that they are saved from the very moment they believe the gospel, trusting Christ alone to save them. They are the ones who can celebrate the “done”. A Calvinist has to toil through “perseverance of the saints” to hopefully prove that he will be saved in the end. Any failure could mean that he was not one of the supposed “elect”. There is not much to celebrate there.)

“If she was going to get an “A” she was going to earn it. And a fan says, “I’m not taking any handouts— I can do this on my own.” They spend their lives carrying around the heavy burden of religion and making sure others carry that weight as well. (p. 81)

(Actually, most Calvinists and Lordship Salvationists carry around the heavy burden of religion, making sure others carry that weight as well.)

“To those who are weighed down with the fear and guilt of religion. To all the fans who are worn out on religion, Jesus invites you to follow him:” (p. 81)

(The invitation to the lost is to believe the gospel, not an offer of discipleship.)

“But the truth is you cannot be a follower unless you are filled with the Holy Spirit.” (p. 88)

(So let me get this straight. One must commit to becoming a follower to be saved, but must first be filled with the Spirit?  This sounds like regeneration before faith to me. It is circular logic.)

“Fans who try to follow Jesus without this power will start to show signs. Sooner or later they will reach a point where they are frustrated by failures.” (p. 88)

(Now I ask, who is more frustrated than a Lordship Salvationist who lives with failures? Or an Arminian who thinks they can lose their salvation and then fails to do so. If you miss the part about faith in Christ alone and operate on the faulty foundation of faith plus, then you will surely find failure and frustration trying to live a Christian life without the Spirit.  Now it should be noted that a believer has both a new nature and the old nature, and can become miserable if he walks in the old nature, but it is a different kind of misery.)

“People surrendered their lives to Christ and accepted his free gift.” (p. 93)

(Salvation is not a matter of life surrender.)

On Bill Bright’s spiritual breathing:

“The basic idea is that you live with a moment by moment awareness of the Spirit until walking in the Spirit becomes as natural —as habitual— as breathing. It’s just part of who you are. Here’s how it works: the moment you become aware of sin in your life you exhale. (p. 95)

(Walking in the Spirit can become more and more natural for the believer as we grow in sanctification. We don’t need this “Spiritual breathing” nonsense, though.  We need to put off the old man and put on the new, be filled with the Spirit, walk in the Spirit, feed upon God’s Word, learn more about God and His Word, and see His truth in our lives as we apply the Word. We don’t need to make up new terms like “Spiritual breathing”.)

“And then you inhale. When you inhale you breathe in and pray to be filled with the Spirit and you surrender control over to him.” (p. 96)

(That all sounds quaint, but it is pointless if you are not saved. I will note that walking in the Spirit is often even easier than Bill Bright makes it sound.  A more mature believer can actually be tempted, reject it, and move on in the Spirit’s control all in one instant. It can be as quick as a blink of an eye if you are growing in Christ and walking in the Spirit. It might not always be that way, but the point is that it can. There doesn’t have to be some specially learned “spiritual breathing” technique.)

Traveling analogy:

“It never occurred to me that I was going the wrong way. The road I was on felt right to me. I’m sure there were signs and markers along the way indicating that I was on I– 75, but they never got my attention. It never occurred to me that I might be going the wrong way. I had the radio turned up, and I was singing along to the music, completely oblivious. I never allowed for the possibility that I was on the wrong road.” (p. 102)

(That is sadly ironic. I wonder if Lordship Salvationists ever consider that they just may be on the faith plus path that leads to separation from God?”

“This teaching of Jesus is the conclusion of his sermon known as “The Sermon on the Mount.” It’s a sermon that has been all about raising the bar of the commitment for those who would follow him. It’s a narrow road, but it’s a road that leads to life.” (p. 103)

(There are many good principles in the Sermon on the Mount, but you’d better consult all of scripture for the basis and method of salvation. This is also a key point about the narrow road that so many get wrong. Some presume that the narrow road refers to a few who are truly committed, but it actually refers to the minority of people who place their trust in Christ alone for salvation. See, the majority will either put their faith in the wrong person/thing, or add to faith in Christ with works.)

“We have convinced ourselves that our beliefs are sincere even if they have no impact on how we live.” (p. 104)

(Here is again a misunderstanding of salvation.  The key is not sincerity but the object of our faith.  Either you trust Christ for eternal salvation, or you don’t.  Trusting Christ plus yourself is not salvation.)

“We are saved by God’s grace when we believe in Jesus and put our faith in him, but biblical belief is more than something we confess with our mouths; it’s something we confess with our lives.” (p. 104)

(We are saved by God’s grace when we trust Christ as Savior from our sin based on the gospel message.  We don’t need to say a prayer, confess him to people publicly, or live out our lives as a living confession to be saved.  Living a Spirit-filled life does however glorify God and is a good testimony, but has no bearing on salvation.)

“The book of James in the Bible addresses this. James wants his readers to understand biblical belief: What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? (James 2: 14– 16).” (p. 105)

(This is a classic Calvinist misunderstanding of James.  Faith in Christ alone for salvation always saves eternally. James is urging believers to use their faith for good works.)

“We don’t often think of it this way, but here’s an important truth that needs some attention in circles of faith: A belief, no matter how sincere, if not reflected in reality isn’t a belief; it’s a delusion.” (p. 106).

(This is one of Kyle Idleman’s more awful quotes in this whole book.  The reality is for him that a belief in Christ alone for salvation saves a person because the Bible says so! Or does He think that the Bible is a delusion as well? You absolutely do not have to prove your salvation to others by your works in order for your salvation to have been actual! Being saved means that you are saved from the eternal penalty of sin, that you have been born again with a new man, that you can now walk in the Spirit, that you have an inheritance in heaven, that you have an eternal heavenly Father, but none of that means that you will necessarily do anything with what you have been provided. It is a sad and shameful thing for Christians to not do much with their Christian lives, given all that is theirs in Christ. The reality is that some don’t do much, and ultimately there will be some that stand before God at the Bema Seat judgement for believers and have virtually nothing to show for themselves, but are yet saved. Plus, why have rewards for faithfulness if the Spirit supposedly just makes everyone do everything good?)

“In Revelation 3 Jesus says to the Christians in Laodicea, ‘You are neither hot or cold but because you are lukewarm— I’m about to spit you out of my mouth.’ Jesus doesn’t say, ‘Everything in moderation’; he says you can’t be my follower if you don’t give up everything. His invitation is an all or nothing invitation.” (p. 112)

(This is a misunderstanding of Rev 3 and is common amongst LS proponents. Ask me about this later if you are not sure why.)

“It’s not unusual to go to a sporting event of some kind and see someone holding up a sign that says “JOHN 3: 16.”* But I’ve never seen someone hold up a sign that says “LUKE 9: 23.” Quick, say that one without looking. That may be a little tougher. But Luke 9: 23 also records the words of Jesus. In fact, unlike John 3: 16, these words of Jesus in Luke 9: 23 are recorded in three of the four Gospels. Here they are: If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.” (pp. 115-116)

(It could also be that the person holding up the sign understands the difference between salvation and discipleship.)

“Those two things must necessarily go together. There is no believing without following. There is no John 3: 16 without Luke 9: 23.” (p. 116)

(This is false for obvious reasons. Idleman provides no proof that this is so.)

“Even after we decide to follow Jesus, we continue to need his grace for the journey. There are plenty of days where I find myself living as a fan, but each morning I receive the same grace-filled invitation that Jesus spoke to Matthew: “Follow me.” (p. 125)

(That is sad, so now one has to make this commitment daily? Wait, I thought you were saying that our lives would prove that we are saved? How can they if you say you wake up every day as a “fan”? Wouldn’t that cast doubt on your salvation? So then are you getting saved again each morning? Is that what you are saying it means to persevere? What if you stop committing to follow each day? Are you not really saved that day? See why it all doesn’t make any sense Biblically?)

“He’s afraid that if he makes that kind of commitment it will require too much of him or somehow he’ll miss out on something better. So he makes the suggestion, “Hey, why don’t we move in together?” Translated: “How about I get all the benefits of marriage without having to make any of the commitments and sacrifices?” That’s the approach fans take. Fans say to Jesus, “Hey, why don’t we move in together?” (p. 134)

(Seriously? He is comparing this to the salvation of someone who believes but has little fruit? I feel that God’s grace is being belittled here. It is rather offensive. Yes, a person can be saved regardless of what he later does with that reality, but that is not a direct comparison to what Idleman suggests. This seems like a man’s tactic to sound convincing, but it fails the Biblical test of accuracy. We must be careful not to determine our theology from human examples.)

Speaking of the Rich young ruler:

“He’s faced with the choice of following Jesus or keeping his stuff, but he couldn’t do both”(p. 144)

(Wrong. He needed to trust Christ alone for his salvation, not in himself or his works. He had the opportunity to be saved the very same way as everyone else – by faith.)

“You won’t be able to take the path of following Jesus without walking away from a different path.”(pp. 144-145).

(True but you have to first be a believer. Salvation is not a change of life paths.)

“There are no exception clauses. You don’t get to say, “I follow Jesus— but when it comes to this area of my life, I do things my way.” If you call yourself a Christian, by definition you are committing to following Christ with every area of your life. It doesn’t mean you will follow perfectly, but you can’t say, “I’m a Christian” and then refuse to follow Christ when it comes to certain people or places or practices.”(p. 147)

(This quote illustrates the deception that is works salvation. Committing to follow Christ in discipleship is a work, not unmeritorious faith. Remember, there is no merit that we can bring to the table that obligates God to give us salvation. He is not impressed when unbelievers try to make a commitment to follow Him. He first wants to save them by grace through faith.)

“I sat down and explained that you don’t have to have your life together to become a Christian or be a part of the church, but you must be willing to repent of your sins.”(p. 147).

(False, you don’t have to repent of your sins to be saved. An unbeliever can’t do that anyway. All they can do is respond to the gospel message by faith in Christ alone. That is repentance.)

“One of Christ’s followers who is a hero to me is Bill Bright. He was the founder of Campus Crusade for Christ. He wrote the tract called The Four Spiritual Laws that presents the gospel.”(p. 150)

(Sadly, it appears that you should have chosen a better teacher.)

“Choosing to become a bondslave was an act of complete self-denial. A bondslave gave up all their rights to the Master. He is agreeing to give up all his possessions to the master. A slave couldn’t pick and choose what was part of the deal. He couldn’t say, “I’m going to be a slave but I want to keep the car, and I need every other weekend off. I need to have a room with a view.” It wasn’t a negotiation. A bondslave would say, “Everything I have, everything I am, I sign over to you.” That’s what Jesus was wanting from the rich young ruler.”(p. 152)

(Now does everyone see the problem that comes by confusing salvation with discipleship? It adds works to the gospel.)

When Jesus invites us to follow there’s not a lot of paper work involved, but he’s looking for some kind of a quitclaim deed. When you decide to follow him you are signing over your house, your car, your bank accounts, your career, your marriage, your children, your future, and anything else that you once laid claim to. You have no more rights and nothing can be withheld. You deny yourself and sign a quitclaim deed on your life.(p. 154)

(Salvation is not like a quitclaim deed. Nor is it a bilateral contract for that matter.)

“As Bonhoeffer put it, “When Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die.”(p. 159)

(I am not surprised to see Bonhoeffer mentioned. Actually, the gospel call is to look to Jesus now and live! It is discipleship that includes self-denial. Big difference.)

“Jesus invites followers to die to themselves. We die to our own desires, our pursuits, and our plans. When we become followers of Jesus, that is the end of us.” (p. 161)

(Really, is that why you said earlier that you were a fan every morning and had to re-commit each day? )

“In Mere Christianity C. S. Lewis puts it this way: Christ says, “Give me all. I don’t want so much of your time and so much of your money and so much of your work: I want you. I have not come to torment your natural self, but to kill it. No half-measures are any good. I don’t want to cut off a branch here and a branch there. I want to have the whole tree down. I don’t want to drill the tooth, or crown it, or stop it, but to have it out.”(p. 166)

(The old man is not annihilated upon salvation. Progressive sanctification should not be confused with the decision to trust Christ for salvation.)

“Every day we make a decision that we will die to ourselves and live for Christ. Dying to ourselves is not a one-time decision. It’s a daily decision. That’s the most challenging part of dying.”(p. 168)

(There he goes contradicting himself again. Didn’t he just say this: “We die to our own desires, our pursuits, and our plans. When we become followers of Jesus, that is the end of us.” Also, if the decision to die to self in committing to be a disciple is a daily thing and becoming a disciple is the same as becoming a believer, then we need to be getting saved over and over again as we go each day through our lives? False! See how this amounts to no salvation at all. It is just a continual process of work commitments.)

“That’s the hardest part of carrying your cross … it’s so daily. Each morning by the grace of Jesus, I am invited to take up a cross and die. That’s the only way I will follow him that day. Every morning we crawl back on the altar and die to ourselves.”(p. 170)

(See the previous comment. I rest my case.)

“It’s much easier to speak about following Jesus when you are making a general statement without any specific commitments. But the most obvious and basic definition of following Jesus will mean making some significant life changes. Following Jesus literally means that you go where Jesus goes.”(p. 176)

(So, Jesus would go to a church that teaches works salvation and teach people works to be saved? Isn’t Christ in heaven seated on the right hand of the Father? Isn’t He also omnipresent because God is Three in One (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)?

“Or what about this, what if God points to a place like Burma or Thailand and says, “What about there?” Anne Judson was the wife of America’s first foreign missionary, Adoniram Judson. Adoniram was 24 when he decided to leave America and sail to Burma.”(p. 178)

(I have heard this tactic of coercion used before by preachers to get people to commit to missions.)

“But the most obvious and basic definition of following Jesus will mean making some significant life changes.”(p. 176)

(So, in essence, you are saying that salvation means you have either made life changes to be saved or at least commit each day continually to making life changes? Wow. That is the opposite of the clear Biblical gospel.)

“I’m not sure how you can call yourself a follower of Jesus if you refuse to go where Jesus went.” (p. 185)

(So, I have to go to Samaria, Jerusalem, Bethlethem? Or does he mean in principle? Part of the purpose of following a master was to learn from them.  We can all, as believers, learn from Christ through the Word.)

“Many fans say to Jesus, “I will follow. Anything and everything I have, I give to you.” But Jesus points to what you’re hiding behind your back and says, “What about that?” For Nicodemus it was a religious reputation. For the Rich Young Ruler it was his stuff. For this man it seems to be his family relationships that held him back. They are willing to follow Jesus, but the relationship isn’t exclusive.”(p. 202)

(False, they both had to be born again by grace through faith.)

“He will settle for nothing less than your undivided attention and complete commitment. (p. 204)

(Well, there goes your re-commit daily idea.)

“Trading everything we have for all that he offers is the best deal we could ever make.”(p. 205)

(Salvation is not a barter deal.)

“They have become too important and they keep us from following Christ with our whole hearts. Augustine referred to these things as “disordered loves.” They may very well be legitimate, but they are out of order in our lives.”(p. 206)

(Hmm, Augustine, CS Lewis, Bill Bright, Bonhoeffer… does anyone see the picture here?)

“Until you really have surrendered anything and everything over to Jesus and truly put him above all else in your life, you will not know the joy and satisfaction that finally comes when you go all-in.(p. 207)

(Really, well, how do you know when you have reached that milestone? This illustrates why it is foolish to base our salvation on fruit inspection. How can one be sure if there is enough?)

In conclusion, let’s remember some key things:

Salvation is not equal to discipleship.

Salvation is by grace through faith.

We can add nothing to faith in Christ alone.

If we do add anything to faith it amounts to no faith at all.

Stay away from those who preach and teach a false gospel.

Please also consider the following verses and their surrounding passages starting with Titus 3:5-7.

(Eph 2:8-10, John 3:16, I Cor 15:1-4, Gal 1:3-4, Rom 3:22-28, Rom 5:1-2, Rom 5:18, Eph 1:10-15, Phil 3:9, Rom 4:3-5, Col 1:4-5, Eph 1:7, Eph 2:13, Col 1:14, Rom 6:4, 11-13, 2 Cor 5:14, John 14:21, Rom 12:1-2, Tit 2:11-12, I Pet 2:1-3, I Cor 3:15)

Jim F

Please see also:

The Gospel According to Spurgeon

Posted in Calvinism, Heresy, Lordship Salvation, Reformed Theology | Tagged , , , , , , , , , , | 26 Comments

Kyle Idleman, Not a Fan, and Common Problems with Lordship Salvation Part 1

Posted on August 10, 2013 by jimfloyd12

Kyle Idleman is the Teaching Pastor at Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky and he has written a popular book titled Not a Fan. Idleman, Kyle (2011-06-07). Not a Fan: Becoming a Completely Committed Follower of Jesus Zondervan. Kindle Edition

His book attempts to distinguish between what is called a “fan” and what a believer really is. It should come as no surprise to some that the author is using this book to set forth a Lordship view of salvation.  I have read the book and have included certain key quotes with my reaction.

I have found that these views are not limited to this one book but are a part of a growing mindset among people who claim to be Christians.  I don’t offer my critique with any inclination to be harsh or mean-spirited. I want the true gospel to be untainted and for God’s truth to be magnified. So, to take a stand for the faith, here are my observations and reactions.

Speaking of a “Fan”, Idleman says the following:

“There is no sacrifice he has to make. And the truth is, as excited as he seems, if the team he’s cheering for starts to let him down and has a few off seasons, his passion will wane pretty quickly. After several losing seasons you can expect him to jump off the fan wagon and begin cheering for some other team. He is an enthusiastic admirer.”(p. 24)

My Comments in blue:

(We must note here that Idleman’s definition of a fan is an “enthusiastic admirer” which just means basically an unbeliever.  To Idleman, a believer must be a “true” follower. The unsaved person has no sacrifice to make in order to believe the gospel and be saved.)

Speaking of Nicodemus Idleman writes:

“In fact, his friends and family wouldn’t even have to know. He could talk to Jesus at night and quietly make a decision in his heart to believe in Jesus; that way it wouldn’t disrupt his comfortable and established life. That sounds like a lot of fans I know. Fans are happy to follow Jesus as long as that doesn’t require any significant changes or have negative implications.” (p. 30)

(Believing is the only way of salvation – that is, believing in Christ and His finished Work to save. Idleman suggests that a believer must commit to certain changes in order for their faith to be true faith. In relation to Nicodemus, Idleman also seems to be mixing conversion with steps of obedience after conversion.)

“Jesus would not accept a relationship with Nicodemus where he simply believed; Jesus wanted Nicodemus to follow. Jesus didn’t just want Nicodemus just at night; he wanted Nicodemus during the day too.” (p. 31)

(Jesus wants all men to simply believe. That is how a man is born again. Becoming a committed follower is part of progressive sanctification. While it is possible that Jesus wanted Nicodemus to follow, it is not how Jesus told him how to be saved. John 3:16.)

“Biblical belief is more than mental assent or verbal acknowledgment. Many fans have repeated a prayer or raised their hand or walked forward at the end of a sermon and made a decision to believe, but there was never a commitment to follow. Jesus never offered such an option. He is looking for more than words of belief; he’s looking to see how those words are lived out in your life. When we decide to believe in Jesus without making a commitment to follow him, we become nothing more than fans.” (p. 32)

(Raising a hand during an invitation or repeating a prayer does not save, but a person who has just trusted Christ alone for salvation may respond that way.  We see this straw man argument used often by Lordship proponents. Where in the Bible does it say that salvation is not only by grace through faith? (Eph 2:8-9) Is not a “commitment to follow” a form of good works? Yes, God does see how we are living our Christian lives, but He does not base our salvation on our progress.  Idleman is basically saying here that faith is not enough! There must also, according to him, be a commitment to follow in discipleship. However, that is false.)

“One of the reasons our churches can become fan factories is that we have separated the message of “believe” from the message “follow.””(p. 32)

(Belief is NOT a “commitment to follow”. A belief in Christ alone for salvation based on the gospel is a change of mind from our own way of salvation to God’s only available way for us of salvation. Yes, following does require movement, but our conversion does not. Eph 2:8-9)

“If you try and separate the message of follow from the message of believe, belief dies in the process. Our churches will continue to be full of fans until we break down the dichotomy between following and believing. Following is part of believing. To truly believe is to follow.” (p. 33)

(Belief is NOT dependent on following.  I can’t stress that enough. One can be a believer but not necessarily a committed learner or follower.  Likewise, a person can be a “follower” but not a believer.  Many people who are not saved attempt to follow Jesus. The sad thing is that they get so focused on the hype about following that they miss the first part about believing.)

“Maybe that’s your story. When you heard the gospel, someone talked at great length and passion about you making a decision to believe, but said little about the fact that this commitment would necessarily change the way you live. I call this “selling Jesus.””(p. 33)

(If you mean by “making a decision to believe”, making a decision to trust in Christ alone for salvation, then it was well worthwhile for someone to help talk with you at great length about that!  It is absolutely NOT selling Jesus. It is rather proclaiming the good news of the gospel. There is NOTHING cheap about that! Once again, believing is not a commitment. It is not a promise of anything on our part. There is no merit that we can add.)

“They ordered a gospel that cost them nothing and offered them everything. So in case someone left it out or forgot to mention it when they explained what it meant to be a Christian, let me be clear: There is no forgiveness without repentance. There is no salvation without surrender. There is no life without death. There is no believing without committing.”(p. 35)

(This, in a nutshell, is the crux of the whole issue. Contributing anything to your salvation, i.e., surrender, turning from sins, dying to self, making commitments, counting the cost of discipleship, etc., is to add to the condition of receiving salvation by grace through faith. Eternal salvation is only granted to those who believe with simple, childlike faith in Christ based on the gospel. (John 3:16) To misunderstand that the Gospel cost Christ dearly but us nothing is to totally misunderstand it altogether. That is exactly why the “lordship” gospel is so dangerous.)

“Like the Pharisees, many fans have given their minds to the study of God, but they never surrendered their hearts. These were men who had plenty of knowledge about God, but they didn’t really know God. This is what often separates the fans from the followers. It’s the difference between knowledge and intimacy.”(p. 42)

(You cannot surrender your heart as an unbeliever. You must believe first. Conversion is not a matter of heart surrender.)

“I’ve talked to people who put off following Jesus because they don’t want to hurt their parents’ feelings. I have had more than one person tell me that when their grandma dies they plan on becoming a Christian. They decide to wait because they don’t want to upset her.”(pp. 57-58)

(Why should we be surprised that an unsaved person would put off following Christ?)

“The relationship he wants with you requires your whole heart. And fans should know that his terms are not negotiable. So before you say, “I want to be a follower,” be sure you understand what it’s going to cost you.”(p. 65)

(Hold up… cost me? I didn’t shed one drop of blood for my salvation. I didn’t die on a cross after living a sinless life or rise again from the dead.  Salvation is freely offered by the One – Christ – who purchased it! He doesn’t need my help to purchase salvation, and He doesn’t need me to pay Him back! We do not owe a debt to God for our salvation. We do owe an eternal debt for our sin, but we can be freed from that on Christ’s merit. It is offered free and clear with no strings attached and no fine print.  It is about receiving His precious gift by faith so that we can be born again as the Bible describes it.  From that point on, we have the capacity to either live in the Spirit or the flesh. Part of the Christian life is learning to walk closely with God in the Spirit, but it is a continual and lengthy process. We will never become perfect in that walk while here on earth.  The flesh and the old man do not simply disappear. They must be crucified daily, so to speak.  This is why it is so important to choose to feed the new man and not the old. That which we feed becomes stronger.

God’s relationship with you does involve your heart, but this comes after conversion. Counting the cost is acceptable in making a commitment like discipleship, but that is a different matter than conversion.)

This concludes part one. Please feel free to discuss this regardless of your view. I plan to include a brief conclusion at the end of part 2 including more scripture that relate to these issues.

God Bless,

Jim F

For part 2, please click here:

Kyle Idleman, Not a Fan, and Common Problems with Lordship Salvation Pt 2

For further reading:

https://standforthefaith.com/2014/09/20/bible-basics-is-your-gospel-good-news/

https://standforthefaith.com/2014/05/22/what-is-eternal-salvation/

https://standforthefaith.com/2014/02/22/the-gospel-according-to-paul-washer-pt1-the-gospels-power-and-message/

Posted in Calvinism, Heresy, Lordship Salvation, Reformed Theology | Tagged , , , , , , , , , , | 541 Comments

The False Teaching of “Perseverance of the Saints”

Posted on August 3, 2013 by jimfloyd12

Saved or not

Last time I posted an article on the dangers of Reformed Theology. Today I wanted to follow that up with my responses to an article by Michael Milton titled Perseverance of the Saints. This was written in 2012 and I think it captures many of the views expressed by those who would hold to a “perseverance of the saints” position. This view is rooted in Reformed theology and is included in “P” of the Calvinist acronym T.U.L.I.P.

I intend to show that this view actually destroys assurance of salvation and puts an undue emphasis on man’s works. When talking to those who claim to be “Calvinists” many are quick to try to distance themselves from Limited Atonement but still hold to this idea of perseverance.  It is directly tied into ideas that back “Lordship” salvation.

Below I have include quotes from the article followed by my response in ( ).

“What is the doctrine of “perseverance of the saints”? Can a believer be given the gift of faith and then lose it?”

My Comments:

(Faith is not a gift given for salvation. Salvation is the gift given and is received by faith.)

“In fact, this doctrine is given in His Word in order to cultivate greater love for God and deeper gratitude to Jesus Christ for His sacrifice on the cross.”

(It is hard to be grateful for something if your are not sure that you have it! We shall see.)

“Consider John 10:27-29: “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.”

(This is talking about preservation not perseverance.)

“ The perseverance of the saints is thoroughly and wondrously grounded in God’s grace. Simply stated, grace is God doing for us what we cannot do for ourselves; that is, deal with our sin and bring a holiness in which we can be fully restored to God as His children. He did this through the life and death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth who was and is God in the flesh. God’s grace will never let us go.”

(Saved people cannot become unsaved if they tried. No amount of walking in the flesh can undo the new man. Perseverance is really grounded in works not grace. Be also wary of the Calvinist’s definition of grace. It is not God overpowering us or making us will to do something. God’s grace is demonstrated in Christ’s death , burial, and resurrection.)

“Following the familiar acrostic TULIP [see sidebar] we see the logical progression: man is a sinner (T-total depravity) and God chooses us not on our merits but completely out of His love (U-unconditional election); Christ was sent to die for those upon whom the Father set His love (L-limited or better put, “particular” atonement); and if He drew them by His Holy Spirit (I-irresistible grace), then it follows that our salvation is not about us; it is about the love of God, the grace of God, and the purposes of God at work in us. Thus, those on whom He set His love from all eternity are His and He will never let them go.”

(Here we have the faulty reasoning that man has added to the Bible. A God of love does not choose some for life and some for damnation. He did choose however that all who believe in Christ based on the gospel will be saved.)

“Perseverance of the saints cannot be reduced to “once saved, always saved.” That phrase does not tell the whole story of the biblical doctrine. “Perseverance” is preferable. If we focus solely on “once saved, always saved” we only speak of the believer’s position in Christ. The phrase does not address the believer’s progression in holiness, which is called sanctification.”

(“Perseverance of the Saints” cannot be reduced to “once saved always saved” because it is not eternal security! This is a key point. If a believer has a position in Christ then he cannot become unsaved. If there are limited to no works evident in his life then that also does not mean that he is unsaved given his position in Christ.  Matters of ongoing sanctification have no bearing on ones eternal destination.  Failure to grow in sanctification may mean a loss of rewards in heaven but they cannot add to or take away from what Christ did on the cross.)

“The Reformed faith holds that God is sovereign and man is responsible.”

(Not really. God is made to be ultimately responsible if He chooses some to life and some to eternal damnation.)

“Thus, if one is called by God and has responded in faith, and has been given the gift of the Holy Spirit, then one will be eager to make his calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:10).”

(A saved person will not necessarily do good things but does have the ability to walk in Spirit as he would have lacked that before.

This would imply that people should take a “fruit inspector” mindset to try to judge whether people may be saved or unsaved based on certain visible fruits.  The problem is that there is no way to quantify enough or not enough. Let’s also understand that one is not to go and try to live in good works in order to test himself to see if he is one of the elect! We must also remember that a believer can at any moment choose to walk in the flesh with the old man or in the Spirit with the new man.)

“Distortions and misunderstandings not only fail to acknowledge the Reformed faith’s perspective of the perseverance of the saints, but also take away from the glorious work of God in us. The Trinity is at work: God chooses His own, the Holy Spirit inspires us as He moves through us, and Christ Jesus our Savior prays for us as He prayed for Peter: “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers” (Luke 22:31–32). “I have prayed,” Jesus says. That is how believers persevere against the devil, the flesh, and the world.”

(Perseverance of the saints takes away what God has already accomplished for us in Christ. The payment has been made and we can trust Him and know that our salvation is secure in Him from the very moment we believe.  We do not have to struggle through life with only a hope that we will persevere somehow proving that we are indeed one of the select few who were destined to be saved. God desires obedience and faithfulness in the lives of His children. We need to be adding to the foundation of our faith. This is not for salvation but for maturity.)

“The perseverance of the saints, like all biblical truth, brings blessings, for as we have seen, doctrine brings delight.”

(It actually brings doubt, worry, fear, anxiety, legalism, introspections, and unnecessary burden.)

“To know that one is safe in the arms of Jesus forever delights the soul in many ways.”

(Yes but how could you know you were chosen? What if you think you are chosen then sin a few times. How many sins can occur before you begin doubt whether you were chosen?)

“The perseverance of the saints is a delight to those struggling with sin.  If you are His and He is yours, the means of grace that Christ has ordained will give you victory. While your struggle may last a lifetime, nothing can withstand the power of the cross.”

(Quite the opposite is true. Struggling in sin would be the absolute pits for those hoping to know whether they might be one of the elect. The fact is that many that struggle with sin, give up, and lose hope because they come to the point of view that God must not have chosen them. )

“The perseverance of the saints is a delight to the believer. For it magnifies the Father who predestined us to salvation in the mystery of His love, as well as Jesus Christ who became the Mediator of this covenant and lived for us and died for us and rose again for us, and the Holy Spirit who actively works in and through us.”

(God predestined no one to salvation. There is no delight for a “believer” in this system because there is no assurance you are a believer!! Even one sin could then cast doubt that you were really saved.)

“The perseverance of the saints is a delight to parents of prodigals. If your children are Christ’s own, then know that as Christ prayed for Peter, He is praying for your children. No one who has truly, not just tasted, but drunk deep of the grace of God, can stay away from that refreshment forever.””

(This is also quite the opposite. The more a parent watched their children rebel the more cause they would have to fear that they are indeed not “elect.”)

Michael Milton is currently the chancellor and CEO-elect of Reformed Theological Seminary (RTS). 

I would like to offer a Biblical contrast.  It goes like this:

1) All have sinned and deserve eternal separation from God. (Romans 3:23, 6:23)
2) Christ (the Son of God) died on the cross after living a sinless life on earth, was buried, and rose again. His shed blood provided the atonement needed for sin. (I Cor 15:1-4, Gal 1:3-4)
3) All may receive the provided salvation from the penalty of sin based on what Christ has done simply by faith. (Rom 3:22-28, Rom 5:1-2, Rom 5:18, Eph 1:10-15, Phil 3:9, Rom 4:3-5)
4) Those who then believe in Christ based on the gospel for salvation are indeed saved and know so right from that point on into eternity. Everlasting life means forever. (Rom 5:21, John 3:15-16, Eph 2:8-9, Eph 3:6, Col 1:4-5)
5) We are preserved by God as His children.  (John 10:25-30, Gal 3:26-29, Gal 4:7)
6) The blood of Christ covers our sin. (Eph 1:7, Eph 2:13, Col 1:14)
7) We are sealed with the Holy Spirit. (Eph 1:13)
8) No saved person is ever subjected to eternal condemnation. (Rom 8:1, 15-17, 29-30, John 3:18)
9) Believers ought to walk in obedience but the motivation is love for Christ, His love for us, and thankfulness for what He has done – not fear of losing our salvation or fear that we will eventually prove that we weren’t one of the elect. (Eph 2:10, Rom 6:4, 11-13, 2 Cor 5:14, John 14:21, Rom 12:1-2, Tit 2:11-12, I Pet 2:1-3)
10) God is glorified by our obedience and choices to grow in sanctification and will one day reward those who are faithful. (I Cor 3:9-14)
11) God still saves those who have little to show for themselves yet so as by fire. (I Cor 3:15)
12) Man has both a fallen nature “old man” and a “new man and walking in either does not prove or disprove salvation. (Eph 4:21-32, Gal 5:17, I John 1:8)

Let’s choose daily to feed the new man and allow what we do to be Spirit filled out of the new man and not out of the fleshly old man. Above all let us as believers live freely and joyfully in the Spirit being able to do what pleases God without the fear of eternal condemnation. Shame to those who would seek to twist the Word of God to lead Christians back to the bondage of the law. (Rom 4:4, Gal, 1:8, Gal 3:3, 23-26, Gal 2:21, Gal 5:4)

Jim F

Posted in Calvinism, Reformed Theology | Tagged , , , , , , , , , , | 17 Comments

The Error of the Reformed Gospel

Posted on July 14, 2013 by jimfloyd12

Last time we looked at an error concerning Jesus allegedly dying spiritually. This time I want to consider a far more prevalent brand of error.  The system that this error is derived from has spread through many denominations and churches including fundamental Baptist churches.  The following comes from a Presbyterian site in an article by a Rev. Stan Gale called “A “Reformed” Presentation of the Gospel.”  I will bring out a few of his points followed directly by my comments.

“As appointed ambassadors for Christ, we must seek to honor God and be true to His Word. That is what it means to be Reformed—it is being consistent with the whole counsel of God.”

My Comment:

(Reformed theology in my view is indeed not consistent with the whole counsel of God.  Let’s look further.)

“Before defining aspects of a Reformed gospel presentation, we must define the “gospel.” Dr. Edmund Clowney, a respected pastor and educator, liked to sum it up with Jonah 2:9: “Salvation is of the Lord.” In Romans 1:1–4, the apostle Paul summarizes the gospel in terms of the person and work of Jesus Christ, yet he provides a bigger picture in the body of Romans.”

(It is curious to me that there is no mention here of I Cor 15.)

“Jesus accomplished the salvation of His “sheep.” Jesus, the great Shepherd, represented those who were given to Him by the Father before the creation of the world. He died for them and was raised to life for them. He did not make people redeemable. He actually redeemed a people, none of whom can be taken from Him.”

He did not make people redeemable?! Let’s check this statement with scripture:

Joh 1:29  The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2Pe 3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1Jn 2:2  And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Ti 2:4  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6  Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
1Ti 2:7  Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

Rom 5:6  For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

2Pe 2:1  But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

“The Holy Spirit applies the work of Christ to our hearts. The catechism’s definition of effectual calling covers the bases: “Effectual calling is the work of God’s Spirit, whereby convincing us of our sin and misery, enlightening our minds in the knowledge of Christ, and renewing our wills, He does persuade and enable us to embrace Jesus Christ, freely offered in the gospel.” The gospel comes to people who are dead in sin, with regenerating power according to God’s purpose in election.”

(Renewing our wills? The Holy Spirit convinces us of our need in showing us that we are sinners. He also helps us understand the gospel message when it is presented. That said, He does not force regeneration on anyone before they actually respond to the gospel in faith. Election is false in a Calvinistic sense but I’ll save that discussion for another day.)

“Faith is a gift of God. A Reformed doctrine of salvation understands man’s total depravity and the bondage of the will to the sinful nature. Faith is not the feeble response of the sick person to the good news of God’s remedy in Christ. Faith is the spiritual ability of the once-dead person—now alive by the regeneration of the Holy Spirit—to have ears to hear the message of salvation, a heart to receive it, and a will to embrace Christ as the way to it.”

(Here is one of the first big false conclusions derived from a logical progression from the “T” in TULIP. Not only is salvation now seen as a gift but faith itself becomes a gift. Faith is not a direct gift of God in the Reformed sense. Regeneration does not precede faith. Why should we need to have ears to hear the message of salvation if we are already saved ie regenerated?! This is not what the whole counsel of God declares.  Rather, salvation is the gift that is received by faith then we are regenerated, justified, and initially sanctified. Continued sanctification and eventually, one day in heaven, glorification.)

“Repentance is part of the gospel’s call. The gospel addresses us in our guilt and rebellion; a proper response to it involves not simply “accepting” Jesus, but also accepting God’s diagnosis, prognosis, and exclusive remedy. In so doing, we reject our ability to save ourselves; we reject any right to serve ourselves. We bow the knee before the Christ, the Son of God, declaring, “Jesus Christ is Lord.”

(This is adding to the idea of repentance. The proper response to the hearing of the gospel is to place your trust in the Savior for salvation. Period.)

“Assurance of salvation is the domain of God’s Spirit. Certainly we can insist that all who have God-given, saving faith in Jesus Christ will be saved.”

(“God given saving faith” is not an actual thing since he does not even grant “saving faith” in this fashion.  He has however allowed all men the ability to respond with faith to the gospel. So now we must have this supposedly “God given faith” to be saved according to the Reformed view? But how can we know this has happened for anyone….? Here comes the rest of the trap…)

“However, we cannot know others’ hearts. We cannot discern if the evidence of life (the fruit) is self-induced—an emotional response or intellectual assent—or if professions of faith arise from the sovereign work of the Spirit.”

“In his first epistle, John pins assurance not to mere profession, but to the demonstrative fruit of God’s handiwork of grace.”

(Wait a minute. Didn’t he just say “we cannot know others’ hearts” and further that one could not tell if the fruit was real or not?!)

One of his points on the matter of the gospel presentation was the following:

“ Issue a call not merely to conversion but to discipleship as the exercise of lively faith and the fruit of genuine repentance; it must convey the necessity of obeying God’s commands to believe on His Son and to turn from sin and live by grace under the lordship and for the sake of Christ.”

(Here we can see the result of the earlier error.  I believe this error frustrates the grace of God and turns the gospel call into something else by adding in terms of discipleship and ongoing obedience. This Lordship style salvation message is widespread in many churches.  Mixing the gospel with works is not pleasing to God, is not God’s will, and is not able to help anyone be saved.   It on the other hand produces lost people or frustrates Christians if they were already saved to begin with.)

Your comments are welcome as there is much more to discuss.  Next time I will discuss a similar article on Perseverance of the Saints.

Jim F

Posted in Reformed Theology | Tagged , , , , , , , , | 22 Comments

Beware of the “Jesus Died Spiritually” Heresy

Posted on June 23, 2013 by jimfloyd12

This year, I have encountered some teachers who initially appear sound in certain areas but have various flaws in their theology. One false teaching I would like to call attention to is the idea that Jesus died spiritually on the Cross. This view essentially says that Christ died two deaths on the cross. The first being spiritual and the second being physical.

The view that I am referring to is different from the view espoused by certain Word Faith teachers who taught that Jesus went to hell and was tortured.  This view centers more on the idea that Christ, in being like Adam, also had to die spiritually on the cross in order to be able to be the sacrifice for all mankind. This view holds that the shedding of blood and physical death is not enough for the atonement, but that Christ had to experience spiritual separation from the Father.  Here are some key verses used to try to support this view.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Mat 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

One proponent of this view is Dr. Robert Dean.

Dean

The doctrinal statement on his website states this:

“Jesus came to redeem mankind (1 Peter 1:18–19) through His efficacious, spiritual, substitutionary death on the cross (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:21–24; Isaiah 53:10–12). In the Hebrew of Isaiah 53:9 and the Greek of Col. 2:12 two deaths are mentioned:

His grave was assigned with wicked men
Yet He was with a rich man in His DEATHS,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was there any deceit in His mouth. Is 53:9

The first death of the Savior was spiritual as darkness descended upon the cross and the Father poured out our sins upon Him and then judged Him. The great violence of this activity was hidden from the eyes of all He suffered alone in the darkness. Upon completion of His work He said, “It is finished” (John 19:30).

The work for our reconciliation was completed. The door was open for anyone to believe in Him and gain eternal life for He died for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). He paid for our sins while still physically alive. ”
To understand Heb 2:9, I think much can be determined just by looking at Heb 2:7 through the end of the chapter.  Hebrews chapter 9, specifically verses 9:11 through 9:28, is also helpful.

Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Heb 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Heb 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Dean claims that Isaiah 53:9 and the Greek of Col. 2:12 mention two deaths. I have read that, in Hebrew, a plural form of the word was used not to signify plurality but to make a point of emphasis. Also, I do not see how it can be claimed that the Greek indicates two deaths in Col 2:12. Even if someone can claim this to an extent, you don’t want to base a doctrine like this on one possible interpretation of a Greek word. It is far better to realize how the animal sacrifices (including the shedding of blood) were a picture of a more perfect sacrifice that Christ would become (including the importance of His shed blood).

In order to help see this point, please also consider the following verses:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:.

Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Eph 1:7  In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;,

Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Rom 5:19  For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous

Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

There is special significance in the shedding of Christ’s blood for the remission of our sins. This is the purchase price or our redemption. Creating a teaching that says that Jesus died twice on the cross is a great stretch from a few particular verses. It ultimately ends up with an error concerning Christ and the exact nature of the atonement. We must also not forget the importance of the burial and resurrection!

In Christ,

Jim F

Posted in Heresy | Tagged , , , , , , , | 46 Comments

Northland International University and the Changes of the Fundamental Christian Landscape

Posted on March 25, 2013 by jimfloyd12

Those who know me know that I graduated in 2000 within a Biblical Counseling degree from,then Northland Baptist Bible College, now known as Northland International University.  Those who knew Northland back then knew a different school than what is there now. Sure some of the same people are there but something is amiss.  It was once a school that taught its students to stand for the faith which also included taking stands against New Evangelicalism, worldly standards including music, and compromise in doctrine.

Now today it appears that Northland is content to run into the the arms of the evangelicals and attempt to draw their students to the school.  They now have allowed music that would have been banned just years ago.  A trip has been taken with students to a “Christian rock” concert as part of a school outreach opportunity.  Some members of the leadership including Dr Ollila have gone to meet with people like John MacArthur and decided that there is not that much that would separate them from cooperating with each other.  There is now in my opinion an even bigger embrace of Reformed style theology and “Lordship salvation” that is tolerated by the school.  Men like Dave Doran from Detroit Theological Seminary and Tim Jordan from Calvary in Lansdale, PA and Kevin Bauder still speak often at the school but have been supporters of people like Mark Dever and others in “conservative” evangelicalism.

Doran_Jordan Dever_Doran_Jordan

Not only that but men like Dr, Ollila (who I still have much respect for) and Dr. Olson (now the president of NIU) continue, last I’ve heard, to maintain that nothing has really changed at the school.

Ollila Olson

I can understand a few things. One is the men who previously leaned toward Calvinism or New Evangelicalism have now found motivation and boldness to pursue that path more aggressively. They have thrown down the challenge to those who question their changes and have shown many the door meanwhile ushering in those who appreciate and support the new directives.  The second thing is that this has caused a stir among those within Fundamentalism who were already weary of the encroach of compromise, Calvinism, New Calvinism, New evangelicalism, and the like.  Those who may have stood with Northland back in the day now find themselves at times even ridiculed by those who embrace the change. Some say times have changed and people within fundamentalism have “matured” and are willing to build bridges for sake of the gospel.  What I can’t understand is why they deny that things have changed? It is obvious.

The burning question is then this: Have things changed for the better? What exactly is this gospel that these men are so eager to embrace?  The answer is the basically the Lordship Salvation gospel. Some might disagree but let’s think about this. If I were to ask these men to describe how a person is saved, what response would I get? What answer do you suppose I would get from a Calvinist such as Dave Doran? His writings can easily be found online and he makes his views quite clear.  Would these men really think that they could find common ground with MacArthur if they really disagreed with him too much about Lordship salvation?  Would they have been so eager to sit on stage with Mark Dever?  Would they attend things like T4G if they really held a Free Grace view of the gospel?  I think it is rather more like the old adage: Birds of a feather flock together.  I would not even think of going anywhere near MacArthur or Dever, and I can’t even imagine sharing their positions or supporting their ministries.  As much as these men may dance around the issue, when it comes down to it they respect the lordship view and look down upon the free grace view.  I would like to hear even one of these men mentioned refute statement and give me a clear free grace message of salvation.  Of course the minute they do, they would be at odds with those that they now seek fellowship with.

What can the average person learn from all this? We’ll first, let’s realize that no person or group of people is infallible. No one no matter how strongly doctrinal they may be now are immune 100% to drifting into error. It takes real work to study to show thyself approved unto God.  Rightly dividing the Word of truth does not come easy.  The second thing is that we should not under estimate our adversary. The devil seeks to cloud the clarity of the gospel in the minds of men. He has no problems using well meaning Christians to confuse other would be converts.  Likewise the devil is glad to have believers be told to scrutinize their works to see if they are in the faith.  Focus on performance takes one’s eyes off of the person of Christ and our position with Him seated in the heavenlies. Do we have to be mindful of our actions as believers? Sure, but we must do so while being filled with the Spirit in obedience to God’s Word.  The fact is that all men must first come to Christ for salvation.  The only way to receive salvation t is to accept Christ’s payment for our sin by faith. This is the gospel message.  No amount of promising to obey Christ in the future has any bearing on salvation.  The price was already paid by Christ’s shed blood. Salvation is also not something that we must wait around for to examine ourselves to see if by chance we just might be so lucky as to be one of the elect.  The Bible clearly states that whoever believes in Him shall have everlasting life.  Don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t. It would insult God to tell Him that we appreciate that He sent His Son to die for us but that we can’t believe it until He makes us believe it.

Despite the movement in Christian circles, let stay clear on the gospel above all things and make sure that there are still those willing to stand for the faith no matter what other men do no  matter how well known or popular they are. One day in eternity we will answer to God for what we believe, not other men.

In Christ,

Jim F

 

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